Combine Capacity Explanation

[antler22]

Can you help me understand combine values better? I am reading through fruitTypes.xml, and understand that wheat is the baseline for everything. However, what if wheat capacity is unacceptable? I see it's "liters of grain per hour" but is that truly how the script reads it?

Does litersPerHa matter for the script?

Does capacityFX have units, or is it just a scaling factor? If it is a scaling factor, what is the baseline liters/hour or hectares/hr? I'd like to understand this very well again because I LOVE this aspect of MR and want to fine-tune. As you can see i've built spreadsheets to do this the right way, so big fan!

Thanks for bringing this back to FS25 and keep up the great work!

[quadural]

base settings is taking into account "huge" game yields and ideal harvest condition (very dry, easy to thresh straw, crops in perfect condition = straight and not lying on the ground)
If you want to decrease the combine harvesters speed => you can indeed adjust the "capacityFx"
in your case, with low yields, you can try setting 0.75 for wheat

But : you could also change only the "RealisticMain.COMBINE_CAPACITY_FX" value to something like 0.9 in the "RealisticMain.lua" file

How it works = "MR_Combine.lua"
the MR Engine relies on 2 things to limit combines harvesting speed :

1. power consumed / availale power
2. threshing capacity

So, even if you have plenty of power, you can be limited in speed (example : straw-walker harvester with big HP, not chopping the straw)
or : even with big capacity, you can be limited in speed when there are not enough power remaining (rotor harvester, small engine, chopping straw, unloading while harvesting)

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First, the Mr Engine compute the liters of grain harvested by second.

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Then, this formula determine the threshing power required :
self.mrCombineThreshingPowerFx * self.mrCombineLitersPerSecondS2 * 6 * fruitThreshingFx / RealisticMain.COMBINE_CAPACITY_FX

RealisticMain.COMBINE_CAPACITY_FX is a global factor (1.25) apply to all combine harvester to "cheat" a little bit to handle the big base map yields (IRL, harvesting a 12T/Ha wheat would mean less than 3kph for a lot of combine harvesters)

self.mrCombineThreshingPowerFx is a specific factor for the current combine (defined in the xml file of the combine)
when lower than 1, it means the combine threshing system is efficient and consume less power than avg (exemple : john deere X9 combine)
when greater than 1, it means the combine threshing system is less efficient and consume more power than avg (example : Massey Ferguson 8570 because of the hydraulically driven rotor)

fruitThreshingFx is the value coming from the "fruitTypes.xml" (1 for base fruit which is wheat)

6 = fixed factor to get good figures for wheat

Example :
12T/Ha wheat = 15190Liters per ha
6m wide combine @6kph => 3.6Ha/hour => 15.19 Liters / second
if ThreshingPowerFx=1 => 1 x 15.19 x 6 x 1 / 1.25 = 72.9KW

Note : this is only the "variable" threshing power.
The total power consumed = idle threshing power + idle chopper power + "variable" threshing power + "variable" chopper power + header idle power + unloading power if unloading auger is active

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Then, this formula determine the chopper power required :
self.mrCombineChopperPowerFx * self.mrCombineLitersPerSecondS2 * 2.85 * fruitChopperFx / RealisticMain.COMBINE_CAPACITY_FX

self.mrCombineChopperPowerFx is a specific factor for the current combine (defined in the xml file of the combine)
when lower than 1, it means the combine chopping system is efficient and consume less power than avg (exemple : newer combines)
when higher than 1, it means the combine chopping system is less efficient and consume more power than avg (exemple : older combines)
Note : sometimes, older combines are more efficient for the chopping unit because they don't chop very well (and so, consume less power)

2.85 = fixed factor to get about 0.8KW per ton/hour for wheat

fruitChopperFx is the value coming from the "fruitTypes.xml" (1 for base fruit which is wheat)

Example :
12T/Ha wheat = 15190Liters per ha
6m wide combine @6kph => 3.6Ha/hour => 15.19 Liters / second
if ChopperPowerFx=1 => 1 x 15.19 x 2.85 x 1 / 1.25 = 34.6KW

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Then, we compute the "maxcapacity" of the current combine with this formula :
maxCapacity = self.mrCombineSpotRate0.35RealisticMain.COMBINE_CAPACITY_FX*fruitCapacityFx

mrCombineSpotRate comes from the xml of the combine (in ton per hour)

0.35 = fixed factor coming from wheat (0.79 density) => ton/hour to Liters per second => 1 metric ton = 1265 Liters of wheat => 1Ton per Hour = 0.35 Liters per second

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now, we can limit the harvesting speed to match the maxCapacity and about 80% of max engine power

[antler22]

I am still pretty lost by this. In your example, where are the values coming from for 15.19 liters per second? And why is that versus 16, 18, 25? And based on what horsepower? Why does header width affect liters per second, I would believe machine horsepower would have a larger effect here. Header width should affect ground speed, ex if you run the same combine with a 5m header vs a 10m header in the same crop, the 5m header should allow faster ground speeds.

I keep trying to build and excel file to run through scenarios and calculations so I can tweak individual combines as well as crop-dependent settings to my liking, based on my maps' yields and keep struggling. AI assistance is turning me in circles as well.

Is it possible for you to build some sort of calculation together so I can enter my MR combine's xml settings, horsepower, and it will deliver liters per second or bushels per hour of each crop type?

[yumi-modding]

Hello
For the 15.19 liters per seconds, it’s just the computation based on the example given just above:
12T/Ha wheat = 15190Liters per ha (based on wheat mass of 0.79 kg/Liter)
6m wide combine @6kph => 3.6Ha/hour => 15.19 Liters / second
Because you will harvest 15190 * 3.6 = 54 684 liters of wheat in one hour so 54684 / 3600 =15,19 Liters in one second.
Since the header size is in the equation (6m here), of course putting a 12m will at least lead to half ground speed in same conditions

[quadural]

Hi,

thanks yumi : I wouldn't have see your answer without him (I don't know why, but it seems I deleted the notification email or never got it)

horse power = like IRL, this is a major factor for rotor combine. And of course, it depends on the crop being harvested (some crop are harder to thresh)

header width = like you said. the wider, the slower for the same combine and crop

horse power VS ton per hour (or bushel per hour) => you can't just put number and get a fixed result
this is the same with tractor, what you are asking is :
put the tractor horsepower, put the tool draftforce and get the working speed
But with MR it depends on a lot of factors (slope gradient, soil moisture, weight distribution, tires setting, ground type...)

for a combine : some power is lost for moving the combine. then for the header, then for the threshing system, then for th chopper if active, then for the unloading auger if active.
But : like IRL, you are also limited by the combine "capacity" (IRL, when combines are not limited by power, you could go faster but you would lost a lot of harvest grain).

you can't compare a rotor combine with a straw walker combine just by "power"
Example : the old MF 8570 would be faster than than the claas evion 450 IRL in most crop. And this would be worse by comparing a modern small rotor combine with the evion.
another IRL example : In very high yield corn (corn belt ?), it seems the hybrid Class lexion are the best. (power is not the limiting factor = world record with less than 500Hp combine. Limiting factor = threshing system in this case)

A very good indicator to know if your settings are right is the "fuel liters per hectare" consumed. If you got something close to IRL = good.

Please give an example of one combine (one the default MR converted would be easier) that you want to tweak without success and tell us what you want to achieve, your numbers, and what you get.
if you set 6095Liters per ha for wheat, it means only 4.8T per ha => you should get "very fast" harvesting speed except if you can put wider header like we can see in Australia

[antler22]

Hi there,

I understand the variability you want to create and thats a big reason I want to use this. Straw Walkers vs rotors, machine efficiencies, etc. In my area I have a very clear idea of throughput (bushels per hour) for several crops and want to establish a baseline within the fruit settings. Then, I can start tweaking individual combines up/down. I thought I had a decent sheet put together for calculating theoretical bushels per hour but ingame on flat ground when chopping my ground speed is much lower than anticipated. I am expecting close to 6mph and actually get 2mph when chopping, 3mph when not chopping. Does anything stand out to you that I made a mistake on in this calculator tool?
MRcombineCalc.xlsx

In my screenshot, max yield is about 70bu/ac (I am below that) and my settings for the combine are below...
mrTransmission isHydrostatic="true" maxRpmWanted="2200" powerRatio="1"
mrCombine chopperIdlePower="20" chopperPowerFx="1.0" unloadingPower="25" threshingIdlePower="50" threshingPowerFx="1" irlSpotTonPerHour="175" maxFieldThreshingSpeed="13"

motor configuration 543hp with a torquescale of 2.248

One question - formula currently finds the minimum LPS between irlSpotTonPerHour (max LPS), threshingPower, and ChopperPower and assigns speed based on whichever value is the lowest. Is this correct, or are chopperPower and ThreshingPower added together and compared to irlSpotTonPerHour?

Also - I hope all my messages come off respectfully. I really am a fan of this mod and don't mean to sound critical with anything I am asking for help with. I appreciate all the responses so far!

[Edit] Comparing with the AF11 combine example and that machine is doing well, 6mph with a 61ft header (would like to make 8mph max, but I believe this is the header speed limitation). I put the New Holland CH7.70 on a 61ft head and it slows me down to 1mph, maybe 2mph if i turn the chopper off. I found that my John Deere mentioned above was missing the "threshingScale" attribute. After adding threshingScale="1", behavior seems better but I am still only up to 3mph or so while harvesting with a 40ft header in 58bu/ac wheat.

[quadural]

Hi, to get a better idea =

1. when posting a screenshot for debugging purpose, make sure you only use Morerealistic mod (no other mod, no map mod, only base map and mr to be sure there is nothing interfering. Maybe a 4x scale map can be a problem with buschel per acre = you get 4x more than expected ?) => I mean, before trying to debug anything, you have to make sure this is the same behavior with only vanilla game and MR. Then, if the problem is the same, you can test on the map you want of course
2. and don't forget to activate the "gsVehicleDebug" command to show me some interesting figures => I want to see the engine curve, engine load, and especially the current output and target output of the combine (in ton per hour => 1 metric ton = 1265Liters for wheat = 36 bushels. So, you have to multiply by 36 the figure to get bushels per hour to get an idea of what the combine is capable )

In your case, you are talking of the combine, but the header configuration is important too (powerConsumer KW and draftforce)

One other thing to try = do you get correct result with one of "my" converted combine+header ? (case ih 7150 for example)

I am guessing the problem could be : you think the yield ingame is 58nu/ac but this is far higher ?

One question - formula currently finds the minimum LPS between irlSpotTonPerHour (max LPS), threshingPower, and ChopperPower and assigns speed based on whichever value is the lowest. Is this correct, or are chopperPower and ThreshingPower added together and compared to irlSpotTonPerHour?
all the "power consumers" are added.
=> header power, threshing power, unloading power (if active), chopping power (if active). Of course, you also need power to make the combine move (combining uphill in the "palouse" = need more power than flat land or going downhill)

Both IRL and in game with MR, the chopper power should be lower than the threshing power
On the "big" combines [class 9-10], the chopping unit can draw as much as 100-150Hp with heavy straw wheat/barley, and when harvesting the full height of the cereal

First thing first : if you don't touch any figures apart from the yields => what speed do you get while harvesting wheat with the MR case ih 7150 and its 28feet header in 58bu/ac wheat ?

[antler22]

Riverbend springs, wheat yield edited to 58bu/ac (base yield, field made for 0% fert/lime/plow etc).

my MR combine, an S690 at 543 rated HP. I used the exact same header, the MR 28ft header you built. Here I am at 3mph.

log.txt

So, this is not right because according to my math I should be able to get roughly 1,300bu/hr (6.6mph) out of the case machine, and 2,000 bu/hr (10mph+, in theory) out of the Deere machine. So I'm not doing something correctly both on general setup with fruitType assignments for ThreshingFx, etc but also my combine is somehow not setup correctly given the settings shown above.

For my question on threshing power consumers, I misworded my question. I see that those factors are added together for an idle power value. After that, the script looks like it compares 3 items..

1. Max LPS (irlSpoutTonperHour)
2. LPS calculated off threshing power: Available Power/(ThreshingPowerFx * 6 * ThreshingCapacityFx/CombineCapacityFx) where combineCapacityFx is set to 1.25
3. LPS calculated off chopping power: Available Power/(ChopperPowerFx * 2.85 * ChopperFx/CombineCapacityFx) where combineCapacityFx is set to 1.25 and happens only if chopper is engaged.

So my question is are 2 and 3 added together when chopper is engaged to determine max LPS, or does it simply take the lesser value as the LPS?

Here are the screenshots with engine curves you mentioned.

[quadural]

hello,

1. what means exactely "LPS" ?
2. please share screenshot with the combine selected (not the header) and the "SHIFT+ 2: physics" mode of the "vehicleDebug")

combine limitation =
the script will adapt the target speed to not exceed the "maxTonPerHour" capacity of the combine, and to not exceed about 80% of the engine max power for combining (so that it remains something like 20% for moving)

on your first picture, we can see "my" 7150 casih combining at 4mph => this should not be "possible" => I can get as much as 5mph with this combine/header in 12T/ha wheat (about 172 bushels/acre). It should "fly" in your example.
So : either you "mess up" the MR settings for crops, either there is something wrong when setting the 58 bushel/acre

Little test = vanilla game, vanilla MR, try again with the 7150 in wheat (0% fert, lime, plow). You should get the max harvesting speed possible (limitation of the header or the hydrodrive. Because IRL, you get for example 3 fixed gears, not synchronized and then the hydrostatic. But the fastest gear is not meant to be used in field. This is the road gear. And so, you are limited to the 2nd gear in field. Something like 7.5mph for the case ih 7150 if i am not wrong)

in the 2 last pictures = we can see the engine load being above 95%. Indeed, there is something going wrong (chopperFX or threshingFx messing up ? or something in my script that doesn't take care of the yield modification ?)

[antler22]

Hello,

LPS = Liters per Second

I see the engine load being above 95%, and my ThreshingFx and ChopperFx are above default at 3.0 and 2.5 based on my calculations to reach bushels per hour. So, that returns us to my original question of where my mess up was in calculations I suppose. I am trying to avoid the "guess and check" scenarios since there are several crops, several combine/header combinations and for the amount of time that takes to dial in with trial and error with threshingFx and ChopperFx I am still hoping to get close by doing calculations instead.

In my part of the world, 172bushels/acre wheat is very uncommon. With the ratio of planting population to yield output the straw handling/engine load becomes the limiting factor. Combines with that low of horsepower are usually still limited to ~4mph or around 1,000 bu/hr. So, this has been my goal the entire time.

Screenshots below are vanilla game, vanilla MR, yield set to 58bu/ac (0%fert/lime,plow) although MR has overwritten the yield since im using vanilla MR with preset yield.

[quadural]

By wiewing the picture with the JD => I am wondering if I didn't understand well from the beginning : are you trying to "mess up" with the "threshingPowerFx" and "chopperPowerFx" of the combine xml ?
if so, this is not the right way for your problem.
What you want = modifying the crops. which means you have to play with the yield (of course) and then the "capacityFx" and "threshingFx" and "chopperFx" of the "fruitTypes.xml"
The combines should be the same (I mean the xml settings) whatever the crop/maps (and so, whatever the crop yield)

So, let's get back to the case ih 7150 => what is the expected output you want to achieve with this combine in your area condition (i mean : 58 bushels/acre) because I don't understand if this is 1000bushels/hour or something else.
Please note that an avg of 1000 bushels per hour for the whole field and a spot output of 1000 bushels per hour is not hte same settings.
In our case, we should be talking of spot ton per hour (or spot bushels per hour)

1000 bushels per hour = (for wheat) 27.8t per hour. This is what we can get with a 300hp straw walker combine in my area (10T per ha wheat)
so, even if your typical yield is very far from that, I am quite surprised this would be the "spot" output for a 7150 case ih in your condition (except if we are talking of "damp" harvesting condition)
anyway, in your case, I would start by adjusting the "RealisticMain.COMBINE_CAPACITY_FX = 1.25" from the "RealisticMain.lua" (set it to 1, or even 0.8) and check again the 7150, before trying to adjust the "fruitTypes.xml fx values"

[antler22]

"By wiewing the picture with the JD => I am wondering if I didn't understand well from the beginning : are you trying to "mess up" with the "threshingPowerFx" and "chopperPowerFx" of the combine xml ?"
--No, not at the moment. my combine settings have those values at 1 for testing. I am only trying to modifiy the threshingFx and ChopperFx within the fruitTypes.xml to reach my desired outputs.

"So, let's get back to the case ih 7150 => what is the expected output you want to achieve with this combine in your area condition (i mean : 58 bushels/acre) because I don't understand if this is 1000bushels/hour or something else.
Please note that an avg of 1000 bushels per hour for the whole field and a spot output of 1000 bushels per hour is not hte same settings.
In our case, we should be talking of spot ton per hour (or spot bushels per hour)"
--Agreed, looking mostly at bushels per hour here. Yield is just a reference point to calculate the bushels per hour in testing. I agree that a 7150 should be able to reach 1,000 bushels per hour, and my john deere machine at higher horsepower should be able to hit a peak of 2,000bushels per hour in good conditions.

Again I would ask that you take a look at my excel sheet to see where my mess up is. It factors in the setting for RealisticMain.COMBINE_CAPACITY_FX = 1.25 and allows you to change that value along with others to find the theoretical max bushels per hour. If I can calculate that correctly via the sheet, I can more quickly customize to my liking without the longer process of guessing values and trying in game back and forth repeatedly.

MRcombineCalc (1).xlsx

Also - my irlSpotTonperHour value is set at 175 on all combines, mainly to not add another variable. Could this be a reason for my odd performance?

[quadural]

excel sheet = I don't understand.

example : what do you mean by "LPS from threshing" and "LPS from chopper" ?
It seems a "nonsense".

The spot LPS ingame define how much power is consumed from the engine (engine load)
and then, if the sum of all "consumer" exceed 80% of the max engine power = limit harvesting speed
so, if you want an excel file to compute the expected speed, this is a little difficult
You have to "input" all the power consumers (header idle power, combine idle powers, LPS powers) and compare them to the 80% max engine power. and then, in game, if there is no problem moving, you should get something close to the excel (provided you are not limited by the "irlSpotTonperHour ")