Turnkey configuration available?

[rmaldersoniii]

I've gotten old and tired.

Does anyone have a working configuration for kn10-kl networking to run the Panda disk on macOS 14? Things have moved past where Ken's old documentation is sufficient--the whole tun/tap vs. pcap thing has gotten beyond me.

In addition, do I need to do anything with shared memory settings via sysctl? I used to have to, but that was literally 20 years ago on a PowerPC under Mountain Lion.

Thanks, folks.

Rich

[hdtodd]

Good Afternoon, Rich,

Were you ever able to get klh10 <--> OSX TCP/IP going? I had given up years ago, but just tried it and it worked out of the box!

I had been working to get klh10 <--> Raspberry Pi TCP/IP working and finally did so (though not yet completely satisfactorily). So I thought I'd try it on OSX (Sequoia for now), and it worked.

First, I'm using Mac Ports as my compiling envt: https://www.macports.org/ . I had gcc already installed; I had to add autoconf: port install autoconf.

Then I just followed the instructions I had written up for the Pi:
https://github.com/hdtodd/DECSYSTEM-20-on-Raspberry-Pi/blob/main/Mk20.md

I moved my old production environment aside; did the klh10 compile and install into an emptied production directory; copied over the old RH20 drives, klt20* and boot.sav files into the new production directory; and fired it up. Started up just fine.

Went to my Pi (which has telnet & ftp) and they both connected quickly to the DEC20 running on OSX.

ftp from the DEC20 to the Pi (which offers ftp service) made the connection after a slight delay. After a much longer delay, it responded to a "?" and was ready for commands. Once the connection is established, transfers are fast.

I'm running on an M2 Pro, OSX 15.7.1. I'll try it on an M3 26.1, but I'm happy enough to have it working on my older production Mac.

Hope you got it running last year. If not, hope this helps.

David

[rmaldersoniii]

Hi, David,

I was able to build the latest KLH10 under Sequoia 15.7, and made the change your Pi notes suggested to the networking setup.
When I started the KL-10 emulator, I got a complaint that "tap" was not an allowed value, only "pcap"; I haven't f'ed with it to find out what it's looking for.

so, the question stands: does anyone have a MACOS SPECIFIC turnkey setup for networking?

[hdtodd]

Rich,I didn’t make any networking changes on the Mac.  I just added ‘autoconf’ to my MacPorts and compiled and installed it.  In any case, I’m sure I didn’t do anything with pcap … no idea what it is.I’ll do it again on my MacBook Air, running Tahoe.  There’s more history on my Mini and perhaps I did something in the past that affected networking.  Less likely on my newer Air.DavidSent from my iPadOn Nov 9, 2025, at 9:35 PM, Rich Alderson ***@***.***> wrote:rmaldersoniii left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) Hi, David, I was able to build the latest KLH10 under Sequoia 15.7, and made the change your Pi notes suggested to the networking setup. When I started the KL-10 emulator, I got a complaint that "tap" was not an allowed value, only "pcap"; I haven't f'ed with it to find out what it's looking for. so, the question stands: does anyone have a MACOS SPECIFIC turnkey setup for networking? —Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[jguillaumes]

Hello,There is no supported tap/tun driver for OS/X. There is an old version that _can_ be installed but you must disable the kernel integrity stuff to make it work (it uses a kernel extension that is not signed). Jordi Guillaumes PonsEl 10 nov. 2025, a les 3:48, David Todd ***@***.***> va escriure:hdtodd left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) Rich,I didn’t make any networking changes on the Mac.  I just added ‘autoconf’ to my MacPorts and compiled and installed it.  In any case, I’m sure I didn’t do anything with pcap … no idea what it is.I’ll do it again on my MacBook Air, running Tahoe.  There’s more history on my Mini and perhaps I did something in the past that affected networking.  Less likely on my newer Air.DavidSent from my iPadOn Nov 9, 2025, at 9:35 PM, Rich Alderson ***@***.***> wrote:rmaldersoniii left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) Hi, David, I was able to build the latest KLH10 under Sequoia 15.7, and made the change your Pi notes suggested to the networking setup. When I started the KL-10 emulator, I got a complaint that "tap" was not an allowed value, only "pcap"; I haven't f'ed with it to find out what it's looking for. so, the question stands: does anyone have a MACOS SPECIFIC turnkey setup for networking? —Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***> —Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[johnsonjh]

All modern macOS versions have tun builtin (via the utun driver), at least since around 2010 or 2011.

It’s compatible with the Unix/Linux L3 tun at the packet level but has a different API to configure it, though is trivial to get working.

There is, unfortunately, no tap support on macOS.

[hdtodd]

Rich, Thanks for your note.  I've learned a couple of things as a result. I took the OSX references out of my "how to".  It works for the Pi but not for out-of-the-box OSX. I tried the procedure on a M3 Air laptop running Tahoe, and I can't even get the autoconfigure shell to run to completion, so I can't build kn-10.  I think the problem is that I'm missing some MacPort components, so I'll keep working on that.  But even if I get it to compile, I suspect that *jguillaumes*' caution about lack of tap/tun driver in OSX is correct.  Though I don't remember doing it, I suspect that I installed that driver in the dim dark past on my (older) Sierra system.  I'll check with him to see if I can confirm that, but I don't have much hope for getting it to work on Tahoe. I'll continue to poke at this, but I have a feeling that it's a lost cause.  The sealing of '/' in Tahoe reminded me that Apple continues to implement security features that, while good practice for almost all users, make it increasingly hard to do anything "different" with OSX.  I had earlier decided I'd move my DEC20 to the Pi; getting a networked DEC20 working on Sierra caused me to reconsider; having it fail on Tahoe, and hitting the "sealed" system drive convinced me to move to Pi for this stuff from now on. Sorry that this didn't work out for you.  My apologies for wasting your time. David

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On 11/9/25 9:35 PM, Rich Alderson wrote: *rmaldersoniii* left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) <#75 (comment)> Hi, David, I was able to build the latest KLH10 under Sequoia 15.7, and made the change your Pi notes suggested to the networking setup. When I started the KL-10 emulator, I got a complaint that "tap" was not an allowed value, only "pcap"; I haven't f'ed with it to find out what it's looking for. so, the question stands: does anyone have a MACOS SPECIFIC turnkey setup for networking? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#75 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABJWBXHAL3JGUMAPGUYTMQD3372VZAVCNFSM6AAAAACLPQEDFWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZTKMBZGE3TQNBTGA>. You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[johnsonjh]

I don't know if tun networking (as opposed to tap) is actually useful or usable — if it is, look at https://github.com/isotes/tun-open. It's a one header and one source file example for tun support on current macOS. It's MIT licensed as well, but it's also simple enough that you should be able to just peruse it to add utun support if you already support Linux/Unix tun.

[hdtodd]

Thanks for this -- I may be able to use it.  I'm going to try to get the DEC20/klh10 emulator going on OSX Tahoe.  My first attempt failed miserably so I need to do a little more research on how to get it compiled with MacPorts.  If I can get that going, it looks like this might be the best hope for getting the networking going next. So ... thanks! David

…

On 11/11/25 2:16 PM, Jeffrey H. Johnson wrote: *johnsonjh* left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) <#75 (comment)> I don't know if tun networking (as opposed to tap) is actually useful or usable — if it is, look at https://github.com/isotes/tun-open. It's a one header and one source file example for tun support on current macOS. It's MIT licensed as well, but it's also simple enough that you should be able to just peruse it to add utun support if you already support Linux/Unix tun. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#75 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABJWBXFTYYYQKH6ON26IMQL34IYZLAVCNFSM6AAAAACLPQEDFWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZTKMJYGQYDKMRTGE>. You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[hdtodd]

Jordi, Thanks for this.  I don't recall disabling kernel integrity to install a tun/tap driver, but this is an old system, updated many times over the years, and I may have done it and just forgotten about it. What's the name of that driver, and do you have a reference to a site where I can find it?  I'll check to see if I have it installed on my Sequoia system. David

…

On 11/10/25 2:37 AM, Jordi Guillaumes Pons wrote: *jguillaumes* left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) <#75 (comment)> Hello,There is no supported tap/tun driver for OS/X. There is an old version that _can_ be installed but you must disable the kernel integrity stuff to make it work (it uses a kernel extension that is not signed). Jordi Guillaumes PonsEl 10 nov. 2025, a les 3:48, David Todd ***@***.***> va escriure:hdtodd left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) Rich,I didn’t make any networking changes on the Mac.  I just added ‘autoconf’ to my MacPorts and compiled and installed it.  In any case, I’m sure I didn’t do anything with pcap … no idea what it is.I’ll do it again on my MacBook Air, running Tahoe.  There’s more history on my Mini and perhaps I did something in the past that affected networking.  Less likely on my newer Air.DavidSent from my iPadOn Nov 9, 2025, at 9:35 PM, Rich Alderson ***@***.***> wrote:rmaldersoniii left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) Hi, David, I was able to build the latest KLH10 under Sequoia 15.7, and made the change your Pi notes suggested to the networking setup. When I started the KL-10 emulator, I got a complaint that "tap" was not an allowed value, only "pcap"; I haven't f'ed with it to find out what it's looking for. so, the question stands: does anyone have a MACOS SPECIFIC turnkey setup for networking? —Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***> —Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.***> — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#75 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABJWBXGXD7COW2HXCFWRS7T34A6EXAVCNFSM6AAAAACLPQEDFWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZTKMBZHA4DSMZZGA>. You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[johnsonjh]

The old ones are https://github.com/saittam/tuntaposx

[hdtodd]

Thanks! I checked, and I don't have this installed on my Mac. Unfortunately, I didn't see anything else that looked like it served that purpose.  So I'm at a loss as to why my Sierra OSX does tap networking with the DEC20 just fine but it doesn't work for others who've tried to get klh10 installed.  I'll keep looking, since that IP connectivity will probably break if I update to Tahoe. The "INACTIVE - NO LONGER MAINTAINED" warning in the readme on this 10-year-old code is enough to convince me not to try it -- at least for now.  😉 But I appreciate having the pointer for possible future use. David

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On 11/11/25 6:08 PM, Jeffrey H. Johnson wrote: *johnsonjh* left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) <#75 (comment)> The old ones are https://github.com/saittam/tuntaposx — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#75 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABJWBXG4PQGMJFE67673VGL34JT5VAVCNFSM6AAAAACLPQEDFWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZTKMJZGA3DOOJVGU>. You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[johnsonjh]

You might have https://tunnelblick.net/cKextsInstallation.html installed - it’s based on that source code with apparently little modification, last updated 2023.

[hdtodd]

That looks like a more likely candidate, but I don't have it installed, either.  But I'll probably try it on Tahoe if I get klh10 built.  If it works, I'll post back. I've looked through the list of extensions on my Sierra Mac and can't find anything that looks like it's related to tun/tap. Thanks, again, for the pointers! David

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On 11/12/25 10:40 PM, Jeffrey H. Johnson wrote: *johnsonjh* left a comment (PDP-10/klh10#75) <#75 (comment)> You might have https://tunnelblick.net/cKextsInstallation.html installed - it’s based on that source code with apparently little modification, last updated 2023. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#75 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABJWBXHSOENWMFKNNZFTJQL34P4SLAVCNFSM6AAAAACLPQEDFWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZTKMRVGEYTINBSGI>. You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>