Scrobbles completed when stale after song paused from Subsonic Client

[adamflagg]

Hi,

I'm not sure if this is a Subsonic thing, a Navidrome thing, etc. but if I were to listen to a song, eg: Pretty Odd by Panic at the Disco on Feishin and then I pause the next track a few seconds in, the Navidrome subsonic source eventually counts up to 99% and the duration of the track and then scrobbles it after a stale period even though I did not listen to it.

Debug logs

[2025-09-10 20:47:37.542 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Scrobblers] [Lastfm - lastfm-client] [Upstream Refresh] Should refresh => last refresh (290s ago) was longer than refreshStaleAfter (60s)
[2025-09-10 20:47:36.771 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Scrobblers] [Koito - koito] Scrobbled (Backlog) => (Subsonic) Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman @ 2025-09-10T20:42:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:47:36.675 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Scrobblers] [Koito - koito] Found 40 recent scrobbles
[2025-09-10 20:47:36.670 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Scrobblers] [Koito - koito] Refreshing recent scrobbles
[2025-09-10 20:47:36.670 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Scrobblers] [Koito - koito] [Upstream Refresh] Should refresh => last refresh (290s ago) was longer than refreshStaleAfter (60s)
[2025-09-10 20:47:36.648 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Scrobblers] [Listenbrainz - listenbrainz] Refreshing recent scrobbles
[2025-09-10 20:47:36.648 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Scrobblers] [Listenbrainz - listenbrainz] [Upstream Refresh] Should refresh => last refresh (288s ago) was longer than refreshStaleAfter (60s)
[2025-09-10 20:47:35.742 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] Last activity was at 20:45:55-07:00 (01:40 ago) | Next check in 10.00s
[2025-09-10 20:47:35.741 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] Discovered => Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman @ 2025-09-10T20:42:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:47:35.740 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] [Player 1-adam] Generating play object with playDateCompleted
[2025-09-10 20:47:35.740 -0700] VERBOSE: [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] [Player 1-adam] [Stale Player Cleanup] (krC8QOMn7zsATLWDsAhIzm) Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman added after met thresholds with tracked time of 190.00s (wanted 240s) and tracked percent of 99.00% (wanted 50%) and not matching any prior plays
[2025-09-10 20:47:35.739 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] [Player 1-adam] Ended current Player listen range.
[2025-09-10 20:47:35.739 -0700] DEBUG  : [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] [Player 1-adam] Stale after no Play updates for 01:40 (staleAfter 90s)

Overlapping verbose logs for readability

[2025-09-10 20:50:10.169 -0700] VERBOSE: [App] [Heartbeat] [Clients] Starting check...
[2025-09-10 20:48:01.257 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Sources] [Lastfm - lastfm-source] Discovered => Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman @ 2025-09-10T20:42:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:47:39.125 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Scrobblers] [Listenbrainz - listenbrainz] Scrobbled (Backlog) => (Subsonic) Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman @ 2025-09-10T20:42:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:47:37.864 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Scrobblers] [Lastfm - lastfm-client] Scrobbled (Backlog) => (Subsonic) Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman @ 2025-09-10T20:42:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:47:36.771 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Scrobblers] [Koito - koito] Scrobbled (Backlog) => (Subsonic) Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman @ 2025-09-10T20:42:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:47:35.741 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] Discovered => Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman @ 2025-09-10T20:42:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:47:35.740 -0700] VERBOSE: [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] [Player 1-adam] [Stale Player Cleanup] (krC8QOMn7zsATLWDsAhIzm) Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman added after met thresholds with tracked time of 190.00s (wanted 240s) and tracked percent of 99.00% (wanted 50%) and not matching any prior plays
[2025-09-10 20:43:34.729 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Sources] [Lastfm - lastfm-source] Discovered => Panic! at the Disco - Nine in the Afternoon @ 2025-09-10T20:39:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:42:48.635 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Scrobblers] [Listenbrainz - listenbrainz] Scrobbled (Backlog) => (Subsonic) Panic! at the Disco - Nine in the Afternoon @ 2025-09-10T20:39:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:42:47.522 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Scrobblers] [Lastfm - lastfm-client] Scrobbled (Backlog) => (Subsonic) Panic! at the Disco - Nine in the Afternoon @ 2025-09-10T20:39:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:42:46.649 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Scrobblers] [Koito - koito] Scrobbled (Backlog) => (Subsonic) Panic! at the Disco - Nine in the Afternoon @ 2025-09-10T20:39:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:42:45.545 -0700] INFO   : [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] Discovered => Panic! at the Disco - Nine in the Afternoon @ 2025-09-10T20:39:45-07:00 (S)
[2025-09-10 20:42:45.543 -0700] VERBOSE: [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] [Player 1-adam] (jDuwf4Dux89oPAJRcYQdQM) Panic! at the Disco - Nine in the Afternoon added after met thresholds with tracked time of 170.00s (wanted 240s) and tracked percent of 89.00% (wanted 50%) and not matching any prior plays
[2025-09-10 20:42:45.542 -0700] VERBOSE: [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] [Player 1-adam] New Play: (krC8QOMn7zsATLWDsAhIzm) Panic! at the Disco - She’s a Handsome Woman
[2025-09-10 20:39:45.386 -0700] VERBOSE: [App] [Sources] [Subsonic - navidrome] [Player 1-adam] New Play: (jDuwf4Dux89oPAJRcYQdQM) Panic! at the Disco - Nine in the Afternoon

I am connected to Navidrome via Feishin's Navidrome connector, not its Subsonic connector. To reduce the test case, I also tested this directly via Navidrome web and it is the same behavior. Is it possible to avoid this or is there a way to modify the stale behavior? I ran another test via Navidrome web where I explicitly closed the X for the player and then closed the browser tab, but the source listened counter kept ticking up.

I read through #338 but didn't think it was the same since this is a Subsonic source?

Thank you for your insight.

[FoxxMD]

The subsonic API provides the getNowPlaying endpoint that MS uses to determine if a track is being played.

Unfortunately the response data, as you can see from the API example, does not include:

• The player status (paused, playing, stopped)
• The position within the track the player is at EX 1:42 / 3:23

So MS cannot determine that you have paused the track. The way it monitors tracks from subsonic sources is:

• For each entry the nowPlaying endpoint returns, MS assumes the track is playing
• if the track for the entry changes then the track has ended (and a new one begins)
• if the entry stops being returned by nowPlaying then MS stops counting the track as being listened to, then scrobbles after stale (after having not seen the player for X seconds)

The scenario you described probably means that the track is still being reported in nowPlaying until the end of the track's duration, even though its paused.

I have previously looked into implementing a Navidrome-specific Source since they support some non-subsonic features that could make tracking plays easier (maybe).

But also...I might be an idiot. I've looked at the subsonic API docs 100's of times but never getPlayQueue which says that it describes the current playing track and track position??? Why isn't this returned by getNowPlaying?? Ugh.

So I'll look into refactoring the Subsonic Source to use this. Expect an update next week.

UPDATE: getPlayQueue doesn't work because subsonic (navidrome?) treats MS authenticating as a separate "player" from anything else (web, feishin) so nothing is returned from getPlayeQueue. It's back to separate navidrome implementation.

[adamflagg]

Interesting, thanks for digging into that.

I wonder if Navidrome's native scrobble capabilities to Last.fm and/or Listenbrainz provide data that is more helpful (ie: using the Navidrome specific data you mentioned in #270) that could be leveraged by Multi-scrobbler's endpoints feature in lieu of working on a separate Navidrome source?

[FoxxMD]

I looked into that this morning, actually, and summarized what I found here navidrome/navidrome#4228 (reply in thread)

For a direct integration that monitors Navidrome like MS can monitor subsonic, it has the same limitation as the subsonic api: there is no way to expose data about "other players" other than the /api/players endpoint that only returns basic information (name of the player, user id) without any track/position details.

You could, however, use the MS Listenbrainz endpoint Source with Navidrome's Listenbrainz.BaseURL configuration option to have Navidrome directly scrobble to MS. This might be more accurate than the subsonic integration. Though, I don't know if the scrobble behavior is dependent on the client implementing usage of scrobble subsonic endpoint or if Navidrome has some kind of internal state for keeping tracking of scrobbling. EX:

• there is a scrobble subsonic endpoint...does navidrome use this or does it scrobble using its own logic internally?
• navidrome web player client certainly scrobbles correctly since its a 1st party
• feishin is a client that uses the subsonic api, and maybe some native navidrome api endpoints...
  • does navidrome keep track of what feishun is doing and then scrobble independently?
  • or does feishun have to implement its own logic to invoke the scrobble subsonic endpoint?